Lord Vader Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 US (Don): If you didn't associate with a BACKSTABBER, you would not get accused of backstabbing. Further: What takes the fun out of these games is not what is posted on the forum. It is that multiple groups of veteran players who have played together before tend to cooperate with one another, not really caring which group wins. It is not about each group maximizing their score, but rather ensuring that their buddies win. This really makes the game miserable for newer players. This is not just my opinion. I have heard the same thing from several newer players who have been the victim of this type of unsportsmanlike behavior. Lord Vader Our mistakes? Think again Rogue Leader. . . . . As I said previously, just because a bunch of you long-time players win by getting your alliances to cooperate and pick off independent groups, doesn't make you "GOOD". Our TEAM will kick your team's sorry butts in a fair contest any day. Want to play a 5-on-5 game? I am sure Russ would set one up. Then we would see how good you really are. . . . . NOT! Lord Vader My opinion is that Lord Vader is upset because he has been out played on the diplomatic front AGAIN They put so much effort in emails trying to get help. They are so heart broken when their efforts fail Again and again and again Try something new- WIN WITH YOUR TEAM AND Learn from others misakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfbeerse Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Lord Vader, Stop whining! We have always made our intentions clear to you. Untill now we have helped you a lot with only our airforces... You could have known that in the end we would be at war. And those last desperate mails asking for help? Don't make me feel sorry for you. You got surprised and hit by Southern Russia and would accept anyones help. You even did a "brilliant" proposal to us: United States could land in xArchangel and Iceland in xKonigberg... And Canada... Waiting for Portugal to attack France, before being allowed to invade? This, along with the threat in your mail made us decide to make the first strike... And I now see that it hit you very hard! Good luck with attacking our shipping and be prepared! Norbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miraeng Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Lord Vader, Stop whining! We have always made our intentions clear to you. Untill now we have helped you a lot with only our airforces... You could have known that in the end we would be at war. And those last desperate mails asking for help? Don't make me feel sorry for you. You got surprised and hit by Southern Russia and would accept anyones help. You even did a "brilliant" proposal to us: United States could land in xArchangel and Iceland in xKonigberg... And Canada... Waiting for Portugal to attack France, before being allowed to invade? This, along with the threat in your mail made us decide to make the first strike... And I now see that it hit you very hard! Good luck with attacking our shipping and be prepared! Norbert Why do you assume I will attack France? I have never considered it. Is anyone at war with US/Canada in a big way? Do you want help? I have laid off for too long. If anyone wants help let me know. In the mean time I'll spend my idle time in Morocco drinking coffee, xcasablaca style. See Ya Portugal Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaty_Bites Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 What ppl have failed to realise is that Iceland is fighting against no one and against everyone. Iceland's main strength is his airpower. Now bombers sitting in a hangar does not do much for ones score hence Iceland has gone out looking for targets of opportunity. Iceland doesn't need to wipe out a country, in fact he benefits more if you try to build up again. Lets look at the more recent events. Iceland destroys an Austrian Airbase and an Army, he could press the advantage and start destroying infrastructure, but he doesn't need to. Destroyed factories do not count to his Air, Army or Navy kills! So he must target something else, but whom? He knows where the French and German airbases are, the Scandinavian Bases are out of effective range, and he isn't at war with Portugal (that i know of, could be wrong here) He is technically at war with the French/Germans therefore he goes after them and when he is finished with those countries, guess what, Austria probably has a few air and army divisions to be bombed. vicious circle isn't it. So, at the end of the day, its really the Scandinavians fault that the Iclandic player is attacking you because you don't have any more targets to give him. Therefore he must look elsewhere. It is really a simple strategy, Iceland wants to increase score, has no NAP's except with countries on the other side of the map, start bombing close countries. bask in the death of your enemies. the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miraeng Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 What ppl have failed to realise is that Iceland is fighting against no one and against everyone. Iceland's main strength is his airpower. Now bombers sitting in a hangar does not do much for ones score hence Iceland has gone out looking for targets of opportunity. Iceland doesn't need to wipe out a country, in fact he benefits more if you try to build up again. Lets look at the more recent events. Iceland destroys an Austrian Airbase and an Army, he could press the advantage and start destroying infrastructure, but he doesn't need to. Destroyed factories do not count to his Air, Army or Navy kills! So he must target something else, but whom? He knows where the French and German airbases are, the Scandinavian Bases are out of effective range, and he isn't at war with Portugal (that i know of, could be wrong here) He is technically at war with the French/Germans therefore he goes after them and when he is finished with those countries, guess what, Austria probably has a few air and army divisions to be bombed. vicious circle isn't it. So, at the end of the day, its really the Scandinavians fault that the Iclandic player is attacking you because you don't have any more targets to give him. Therefore he must look elsewhere. It is really a simple strategy, Iceland wants to increase score, has no NAP's except with countries on the other side of the map, start bombing close countries. bask in the death of your enemies. the end. You got to be kidding! I don't believe that for a second. The Icelandic warrior does not have that much nouce. We have to cut off his supplies and he is stuffed. Who's in this war? What is France and Germany doing? Are they getting pounded by Iceland? I don't think so. If so why didn't they tell me? I can put a dent in Icelands plans if I want to. No one has approached me to do anything so I am happy to plod along taking out Morocco and Spain. Now that CD of US is out of here we have this place to ourselves now. Lets talk! Portugal Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersir Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Lord Vader, I am astonished in the way you are wetting your pants on this forum. Facts: You cried for help against Austria / We saw our intrest in doing so and destroyed the Austrian airforce / this tipped the balance in the way you hoped for / the Austrian army collapsed even more than anticipated and Germany/France took over the initiative / after that Germany/France even gradually took back their country / besides a few small provinces Germany is complete again plus most of Lowlands and Denmark / France has the vital industry of Northern France back and his part of the Lowlands and is gaining back provinces each turn now / strenghtened by this succes you start sending us bold messages basically forcing us to formally join you otherwise you will play the spoiling game on us / we decided to react as we were supposed to..... To the whiners complaining about ethics in this game. Apparently the word ethical/unethical is used when it serves you right. When you are screwed, the others are unethical. When you screw others you twist the facts or tell half the story. Cut it out, life is too short. When you play Victory! expect the worst and hope for the best or just don't play the damn game. To all non whiners, Take care and may the best win. Hersir Iceland continues to reach new depths of treachery. . . . Anyone working with him in this game or any other should check out the message string below. Note Hersir indicated cooperation on the part of him and his TA's, then backstabbed us days later. Lord Vader ______________________________ I just received France's turn results, showing your airstrikes on Germany's base. It was very SLEAZY of you to send the personal message below and then attack us. Guess we should have expected as much given how you screwed over Great Britain. Rest assured I will make it my business to be sure you do not win this game, or any future ones in which I encounter you. Lord Vader Hi Lord Vader, We all decided that we want to cooperate further in the future. A mail from USA/Canada will follow within days. How is the war going? We noticed that France and Germany are actually gaining back their old territory, which is good. Are they going to press even further, it looks like the Austrian army is on the verge of collapse with loosing all that territory. Further are you going to hold in Poland, with Sweden? We have now broken the Irish army and as a result all the tactical airforces become available for targets you want to be taken out. Last turn I destroyed rail in Northern Italy, to block his logistics towards France. So, with extra forces at the ready, which targets do you want to take care of? Any critical "preparing ground" missions needed in France or Germany? Mind you, our tactical forces don't have the same reach as my strategic forces have. Hope hearing from you soon, so that we can adjust our planning accordingly. Gr. Hersir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 I have been reading this thread with interest. I am a new player and am experiencing the big group picks on a little nation sydrome in 80. I am not bothered by the fact there is this large group on my border I have enjoyed the diplomatic sparing and if the end comes quickly I will have enjoyed it. All I have done is seek help from others and will know through this experience who is trustworth and who is not, even my enemies have played with honour. What I will say on this subject is that all concerned should just step back and let it drop, it seems to be getting a little heated. I for one would trust an enemy in one game as an ally in a future game but never again if I had been double crossed. It should also be noted that those who associate with a "Backstabber" will get tarred with the same brush, its a fact of life and should be lived with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstrait Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Just to straighten a few things out: Scandinavia knew three turns ago that SRussia and Turkey were bypassing CRussia to get to us. In fact, we contacted Turkey about it. Stop speaking of your masterful ploy...it was obvious from the beginning and a few SIM TCs revealed it. Did we try to negotiate around it? Of course, but unsuccessfully, so no big deal. As for US/Canada/Iceland...we've be watching a waiting for them from the beginning, since they were TA'd to NRussia. We had hoped to encourage them to fight with us rather than against us, since it seems unlikely that we are in any danger of winning, but if that can't happen, again no big deal. I agree with Cain to some extent - we will remember who fought against us in good faith, and who blatantly lied. That's the best revenge possible. This may not be the game that we get to pay them back in, but there will be others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Leader Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Our mistakes? Think again Rogue Leader. . . . . As I said previously, just because a bunch of you long-time players win by getting your alliances to cooperate and pick off independent groups, doesn't make you "GOOD". Our TEAM will kick your team's sorry butts in a fair contest any day. Want to play a 5-on-5 game? I am sure Russ would set one up. Then we would see how good you really are. . . . . NOT! You know not what you speak Lord Vader. 4 games makes me a long time player? Granted I made/will make it to the end in 2 games That expierence is invaluable. So much to learn about the end games teaches mistakes made in the beginning. SR and I are working together FOR THE FIRST TIME The only other interaction was as enemies in my short lived lose in 75 5 on 5, sounds good. Do I have to keep the Baltic player? I may not be as good as you, but I kicked your brothers around AND I"M NOT DONE YET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_dark_monk Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Count me to the side which "blatantly lied".... the other side seems to be with out any fun and happiness. I am tired of reading all these rumors about big groups of old players. Norbert is right: Stop whining and fight. If you continue like that I will offer peace to Tunisia and ask for an additional street to the north. Ohh I forget to mention: If you play to get revenge then you will end up at the same point in every game. The Monk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miraeng Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I have been reading this thread with interest. I am a new player and am experiencing the big group picks on a little nation sydrome in 80. I am not bothered by the fact there is this large group on my border I have enjoyed the diplomatic sparing and if the end comes quickly I will have enjoyed it. All I have done is seek help from others and will know through this experience who is trustworth and who is not, even my enemies have played with honour. What I will say on this subject is that all concerned should just step back and let it drop, it seems to be getting a little heated. I for one would trust an enemy in one game as an ally in a future game but never again if I had been double crossed. It should also be noted that those who associate with a "Backstabber" will get tarred with the same brush, its a fact of life and should be lived with. Thanks for your input Cain I like what you say. Tarring with the same brush is just exactly what has happened with US & Canada in this game. It will be hard to trust any of these three players in any other game. You would be forever worring about weather you were going to get betrayed by them. It's a shame because I don't think US is like that. But I couldn't take the risk in furtue games unless they proved to trustworthy in the future. It takes only one game to wreck a reputation and another 20 to get it back. It's just not worth it. Portugal Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miraeng Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I have been reading this thread with interest. I am a new player and am experiencing the big group picks on a little nation sydrome in 80. I am not bothered by the fact there is this large group on my border I have enjoyed the diplomatic sparing and if the end comes quickly I will have enjoyed it. All I have done is seek help from others and will know through this experience who is trustworth and who is not, even my enemies have played with honour. What I will say on this subject is that all concerned should just step back and let it drop, it seems to be getting a little heated. I for one would trust an enemy in one game as an ally in a future game but never again if I had been double crossed. It should also be noted that those who associate with a "Backstabber" will get tarred with the same brush, its a fact of life and should be lived with. Thanks for your input Cain I like what you say. Tarring with the same brush is just exactly what has happened with US & Canada in this game. It will be hard to trust any of these three players in any other game. You would be forever worring about weather you were going to get betrayed by them. It's a shame because I don't think US is like that. But I couldn't take the risk in furtue games unless they proved to trustworthy in the future. It takes only one game to wreck a reputation and another 20 to get it back. It's just not worth it. Portugal Paul Come back CD We forgive you. Your childish outbursts are the only interesting thing going for this forum. Without you here, it is like a forest without trees It's like a writer with no pen, It's like a song without an end and most of all. How can you stay away for so long. We miss you. We do. Now why would you declare war on France and Germany? I couldn't believe it when I read it. The back door is protected too you know. I've been expecting Iceland for while now. However now I have you to worry about also. Portugal Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstrait Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 Our mistakes? Think again Rogue Leader. . . . . As I said previously, just because a bunch of you long-time players win by getting your alliances to cooperate and pick off independent groups, doesn't make you "GOOD". Our TEAM will kick your team's sorry butts in a fair contest any day. Want to play a 5-on-5 game? I am sure Russ would set one up. Then we would see how good you really are. . . . . NOT! You know not what you speak Lord Vader. 4 games makes me a long time player? Granted I made/will make it to the end in 2 games That expierence is invaluable. So much to learn about the end games teaches mistakes made in the beginning. SR and I are working together FOR THE FIRST TIME The only other interaction was as enemies in my short lived lose in 75 5 on 5, sounds good. Do I have to keep the Baltic player? I may not be as good as you, but I kicked your brothers around AND I"M NOT DONE YET Well....the three Scandinavian countries consisted of a brand new player and two others who had played only half a game at the start of this one. Relative to us, you have worlds of experience, not that it helped you any. We thoroughly trashed your ally Baltic States, drove your ally NRussia back out of the western portion of his country, and left you in a helpless state of disarray until to decided to get SRussia and Turkey involved - by selling off your country to do so. Try not to impress us with your skills.... Making it to the end of this game if you are not in Central Europe is really not a huge accomplishment (no offense to you survivors out there) - as an island nation or one of the Russia's it is no big deal at all. Look us up in a few more months from Game 76 - we will be survivors (and maybe even winners) of our very first Victory! game. There is no doubt that we should have finished you off before going after Poland and his allies, but we wanted to rescue Germany and France, and felt it was the best move for game balance. We didn't realize that most players don't seem to care much about game balance in Victory! In fact, it appears that most long time players have no problems playing for second place. Lesson learned. See you in another game, enjoy fighting the computer and giving your country to SRussia. Hope it makes you feel better, since you know head to head your alliance got your butts kicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd_ernst Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Come back CDWe forgive you. Your childish outbursts are the only interesting thing going for this forum. Without you here, it is like a forest without trees It's like a writer with no pen, It's like a song without an end and most of all. How can you stay away for so long. We miss you. We do. Now why would you declare war on France and Germany? I couldn't believe it when I read it. The back door is protected too you know. I've been expecting Iceland for while now. However now I have you to worry about also. Portugal Paul Who can resists such poetry? I've had a nice holiday to think things over and came to the conclusion that the only way to counter all the accusations is by kicking some butt! Hence the war declarations... Have you accepted my proposal yet? Greetings, Don Nemesis of Scandinavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_dark_monk Posted September 5, 2007 Report Share Posted September 5, 2007 Our mistakes? Think again Rogue Leader. . . . . As I said previously, just because a bunch of you long-time players win by getting your alliances to cooperate and pick off independent groups, doesn't make you "GOOD". Our TEAM will kick your team's sorry butts in a fair contest any day. Want to play a 5-on-5 game? I am sure Russ would set one up. Then we would see how good you really are. . . . . NOT! You know not what you speak Lord Vader. 4 games makes me a long time player? Granted I made/will make it to the end in 2 games That expierence is invaluable. So much to learn about the end games teaches mistakes made in the beginning. SR and I are working together FOR THE FIRST TIME The only other interaction was as enemies in my short lived lose in 75 5 on 5, sounds good. Do I have to keep the Baltic player? I may not be as good as you, but I kicked your brothers around AND I"M NOT DONE YET Well....the three Scandinavian countries consisted of a brand new player and two others who had played only half a game at the start of this one. Relative to us, you have worlds of experience, not that it helped you any. We thoroughly trashed your ally Baltic States, drove your ally NRussia back out of the western portion of his country, and left you in a helpless state of disarray until to decided to get SRussia and Turkey involved - by selling off your country to do so. Try not to impress us with your skills.... Making it to the end of this game if you are not in Central Europe is really not a huge accomplishment (no offense to you survivors out there) - as an island nation or one of the Russia's it is no big deal at all. Look us up in a few more months from Game 76 - we will be survivors (and maybe even winners) of our very first Victory! game. There is no doubt that we should have finished you off before going after Poland and his allies, but we wanted to rescue Germany and France, and felt it was the best move for game balance. We didn't realize that most players don't seem to care much about game balance in Victory! In fact, it appears that most long time players have no problems playing for second place. Lesson learned. See you in another game, enjoy fighting the computer and giving your country to SRussia. Hope it makes you feel better, since you know head to head your alliance got your butts kicked. You give up before you really loose? Scandinavia seems to be a big "Kindergarten" or this simply an other maneuver hiding their true plans. The Monk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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