Templar Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I can't deny the rest of the post...sometimes desperate times calls for desperate measures....but all credit really must go to the Portugeuse Foreign Affairs Department working around the clock to bring it all together It's quite an achievement. But one that I think you've planned and achieved longer ago than you (understandably) show here on the forum. The actions I've witnessed from Hungary to 'support' his TA are not in line with the experienced player Templar is. Templar, care to explain your most recent actions? Are you betraying your TA? Shifting the balance even further in favor of Pred&Co.? Regards, THE SHeikh The TA for whom you reference I have no agreement with, and the one I did have an agreement with wouldn't even return e-mails most of the time. So to answer your question yes I fully supported my TA as was agreed upon and now my attentions lie elseware since he is no more. (had I heard from any of you guys over the last 5-10 turns I probably would have committed fully). Templar of Hungary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Makum bin Sultan Al Rashi Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 The TA for whom you reference I have no agreement with, and the one I did have an agreement with wouldn't even return e-mails most of the time. So to answer your question yes I fully supported my TA as was agreed upon and now my attentions lie elseware since he is no more. (had I heard from any of you guys over the last 5-10 turns I probably would have committed fully).Templar of Hungary I'm referencing to your TA Austria. The country that is still played by the same player that started that country: HeavyB. The same player that is still holding out against overwhelming odds. Surely you must have noticed that he was still playing? You've got access to his battlereports, being a TA with full intel-sharing? I haven't heard from you to check if he dropped. Neither did Sweden, Baltics or Germany. Or did we miss an e-mail? But I'll keep checking my RTG messagebox. We did trust you, you know? THE SHeikh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I'm referencing to your TA Austria. The country that is still played by the same player that started that country: HeavyB. The same player that is still holding out against overwhelming odds. Surely you must have noticed that he was still playing? I am absolutely amazed that the same player is still playing Austria! About three turns ago his tactics changed so drastically from outright ridiculous to actually pretty good that I would have bet money it was a different player. It looked like he didn't even know there were replacement commanders. Not to mention one of you guys actually mentioned on the forum you were looking for a replacement player? So which one of you guys are the coach! I commend him on a good fight but the end is near and these next two turns will be pretty nasty.... It's quite an achievement. But one that I think you've planned and achieved longer ago than you (understandably) show here on the forum. Perhaps the Portugeuse Foreign Ambassador to World Relations can visit Finland and open discusions with your greatly accomplished nation in an endeavor to bring peace to our countries and work towards a common goal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Wolf Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 The TA for whom you reference I have no agreement with, and the one I did have an agreement with wouldn't even return e-mails most of the time. So to answer your question yes I fully supported my TA as was agreed upon and now my attentions lie elseware since he is no more. (had I heard from any of you guys over the last 5-10 turns I probably would have committed fully). Templar of Hungary Man, I only have 1 comment for you: you spoil this game. You mean Spain changed his strategy? When one vs one does not work (read Spain got beaten to SH*T by a bankrupt Germany) you guys switch to the old Predator strategy 'three vs one'. Smart... Or maybe your spanish friend was afraid he would loose that T34 army? No it's more like Austria is so powerful that no one country can beat him and without U.S. help with germany we are just spread too thin. but I think the next four turns will put the Austrian problem behind us and allow us to turn our attentions elsewhere.....I certainly don't see a different strategy used by us that you guys didn't use on Switzerland and Poland? Had we not stopped Austria cold you guys would be owning pretty much all of Europe right now.... Amazing. You actually say the same but seem able to use it as an argument in your favor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavyB Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Mr DOUG you are not telling the truth... First we never communicated much and what we did was on private mails in the forum... It was you who proposed the TA not me! I give a few quotes; Thanks for the heads-up but my turn just ran on 9/22. If I can get the intel a little quicker next time I'll adjust my bombing runs. -Doug So Italy can't cede......hmmmmmmm..........well I guess I'll have to break with him and move in, but that may take up to 5+ turns. If you could update me on what you and Italy control maybe we can find a quicker alternative. How far west are you and Germany still and which provinces Portugal and Spain hold. Perhaps with a TA with you this turn I could fly through you and hit Spain with TAS as early as next turn, unless you run before me in which case I could sign the TA and DW on Spain this turn. I may keep my alliance with Portugal and make him break with me but this will depend on what he and Spain controls. Hopefully that alliance can be still used against them. I also still have an alliance with Greece and Rumania so if you didn't and you were concerned with a southern surprise attack from Greece you could cede me a few buffer provinces in Yugoslavia like Nasice and Sombor (I assume that Maribor is too large?). And I could extend my defensive perimeter abit, actually I would like too and that would free up additional troops to be used in the west. Currently I have 3 18-division armies in Hungary and enough arms to build 2 more. Is France still fighting? Is Sweden and Baltic States Allies? What about GB, Ireland, Iceland and Denmark? Doug Hungary So mr Link you are a unreliable partner (I would have used other words if Russ would allow me, but then again it's just a game....they say...) and I won't turn my back on you again.... As to mr Preditor ... thx for the compliment, and yes I have a good coach:-) I have long assumed i could win on my own against you and spain, however i must have been overly optimistic; The fact that Italy dropped twice did not help, and the treacherus behavior from mr Link was a set back...also your cowardly behaviour against Germany and the fact you have found 3 or 4 other allies crazy enough to sacrifice their airforce has given you some advantage against me.. You will however soon find out that I also have allies and that they also have significant powers..as your spanish ally does not have the balls to conquer germany they will have a perfect base to bomb the hell out of him... Before this game is over we will kick you both back to the iberean penninsula.... The Opera isn't over before the fat Lady sings... HeavyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slicer Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Man, I only have 1 comment for you: you spoil this game. So you are saying that this game is spoiled when players make diplomatic decisions that change over the course of the game? Sorry, but that confuses me. Part of any game (in my humble opinion) is continually reinvestigating your position to give yourself the best chance of either (1) success or (2) revenge. I have seen more decisions made on these two premises than any other. IF there was a decisions by a player to change the terms of an agreement because that player decided that the new decisions supported, let's say, success, then why would that 'spoil' a game? In Game 81, for example, my new buddy Sven and I were having ourselves a nice little war when my tiny Irish island was invaded and CBed into the stone age. Fortunately, I was able to eject all invaders, but I know that I now have no chance of success. I am a decent player and can now keep all of the USA/Canada/Portugal land forces out of Ireland in that game, but I am playing solely for revenge and will harass them until TP 73 - not because they "spoil" the game for me, but because I want to show them that they chose the wrong enemy. THAT will be fun for me the whole game. THAT is my version of success. Heck, if you want to get revenge, take it out on your enemies...don't make it a game thing. I recall in Game 62 that I felt backstabbed by an alliance who changed their minds on what a fair distribution of a country's carcass was. We ended up fighting through the end of the war. That's politics. I felt betrayed, but success for me became redefined. I still had fun and they didn't spoil the game; they merely changed my focus. What do you expect from a 40 player diplomatic-war game? Take a lesson from HeavyB. He is getting hammered, but he has pluck. He is waving a little tiny fist at the juggernauts screamng "I'll get you and your little dog too!" at the top of his lungs. That's fight! That's spirit! That's what makes killing him fun. I only wish I could send my air force up to Europe to do the same. HE IS A FUN TARGET! :-) S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Makum bin Sultan Al Rashi Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 So you are saying that this game is spoiled when players make diplomatic decisions that change over the course of the game? No Slicer, you're good with words, but cut the spin. That's not what this is about. Betraying and backstabbing a Total Ally (intel option on), without any warning, is unethical and something you just don't do (Imo). I dislike unethical behavior, it leaves a foul taste in my mouth and makes the game less enjoyable. Anyway, ethical standards differ and we'll continue to harass your überblock to the bitter end. THE SHeikh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templar Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 So you are saying that this game is spoiled when players make diplomatic decisions that change over the course of the game? No Slicer, you're good with words, but cut the spin. That's not what this is about. Betraying and backstabbing a Total Ally (intel option on), without any warning, is unethical and something you just don't do (Imo). I dislike unethical behavior, it leaves a foul taste in my mouth and makes the game less enjoyable. Besides that, I even doubt that Templar changed his mind 'over the course of the game'. Anyway, ethical standards differ and we'll continue to harass your überblock to the bitter end. It's a shame that at the moment I'm losing valuable resources against an enemy I respect a lot more than this so called 'ally'. An 'ally' that should check out the true meaning of the word 'Templar' and change his nick to something more appropriate. I can only hope his current and future allies will be more cautious with a player that is now known to be 'continually reinvestigating his position to give himself the best chance' and that so easily makes 'diplomatic decisions that change over the course of the game'. TA'd or not. Jeepers fellas I'm being attacked on all fronts. I'm not an unethical or immoral player by any stretch of the imagination. Again I supported my ONLY TA, Austria, to the fullest of our agreement and it was a mutual agreement to TA so I could shift troops and fly over HIM to bomb for HIM. Again very little communications ever came from you guys (maybe an e-mail or two over the course of this entire game!) And when he doesn't respond to my efforts mixed with the forum responses it looked like he dropped. (Again any form of communication was needed!). I have NOT backstabbed any of you since I was and never plan to DW on any of you! I provided valuable intel to my TA and have never shared any of that with Predator's group and he can confirm that! I'm appauled at your whinny, child-like accusations and will refrain from associating with any of you in the future if this is the sort of crap your willing to shovel. I have NO intentions to side with them and have NO intentions on attacking any of you but perhaps I should reconsider? Remember fellas its still a game and SURVIVAL is a big part of it! Templar of Hungary THE SHeikh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Anyway, ethical standards differ and we'll continue to harass your überblock to the bitter end You call and recognize us as the uberblock and yet you have as many countries in your block of nations as we do. What I think seems to be lost on everyone is that the middle eastern block is as strong and capable as either of ours. but they also seem to be fighting factions of both of our groups. Since there was no response from Finland to my overtures of peace i can only assume that they are taking portugeuse lessons in hopes of one day being assimilated and affiliated with our great nation. Of course Spanish is easier to learn and is more widely spoken and can still be understood by our countrymen. As to mr Preditor ... thx for the compliment, and yes I have a good coach:-) I have long assumed i could win on my own against you and spain, however i must have been overly optimistic; The fact that Italy dropped twice did not help, and the treacherus behavior from mr Link was a set back...also your cowardly behaviour against Germany and the fact you have found 3 or 4 other allies crazy enough to sacrifice their airforce has given you some advantage against me.. You will however soon find out that I also have allies and that they also have significant powers..as your spanish ally does not have the balls to conquer germany they will have a perfect base to bomb the hell out of him Good to have you back on the forum Heavy B, your banter has been sorely missed! it is interesting that you underestimated us because for the most part in victory I find that people overestimate their opponents and what they have and can do. But in your defense ken and myself had to play almost a perfect game and have the luck of a couple of mistakes on your part to have the success that we did. I just don't figure how our actions toward Germany can be construed as cowardly. It is simply logistics, if we had not FP on him we lose the war hands down. It was all Spain and myself could do to contain Austria at the time. We had to allow the U.S. time to build up and then when Spain went back to war U.S. could not break his NAP with germany further hindering our plans. Part of this game includes managing your economics and treasury and establishing yourself economically to support a war much like in the real world. If Germany is unable to do that we should not be looked down upon for taking advantage of his weakness as a player in those areas. Germany will get his fight soon enough.... As for your allies we anticipate their help and look forward to enjoying thirty more turns of war against a worthy opponent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erich von Manstein Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Part of any game (in my humble opinion) is continually reinvestigating your position to give yourself the best chance of either (1) success or (2) revenge. I have seen more decisions made on these two premises than any other. Heck, if you want to get revenge, take it out on your enemies...don't make it a game thing. I recall in Game 62 that I felt backstabbed by an alliance who changed their minds on what a fair distribution of a country's carcass was. We ended up fighting through the end of the war. That's politics. I felt betrayed, but success for me became redefined. I still had fun and they didn't spoil the game; they merely changed my focus. What do you expect from a 40 player diplomatic-war game? Take a lesson from HeavyB. He is getting hammered, but he has pluck. He is waving a little tiny fist at the juggernauts screamng "I'll get you and your little dog too!" at the top of his lungs. That's fight! That's spirit! That's what makes killing him fun. I only wish I could send my air force up to Europe to do the same. HE IS A FUN TARGET! :-) S Vic! is a wargame. It's about fighting, killing, Victory! I personally think you should fight with honour and respect your opponent. Dirty tricks on the battlefield? Sure. But there's also the political side of the game that should be approached with ethics and repution in mind. Alliances are just prolonged cease fires. Everybody expects they will be broken sooner or later. But TA's... For me a TA is signed in blood. I'd rather die than betray my TA. Ok you can quit when the odds are against you. In turn 71 that is... Breaking a TA? Maybe if needed and agreed by both parties. But betraying a TA? Baaaaaaaaaad for your reputation! Yes I know most of my TA's VERY well. More then 15 years now I guess. I trust 'm without reservations. HeavyB is a new TA and man does he have the right attitude!!! Von Manstein I just don't figure how our actions toward Germany can be construed as cowardly. It is simply logistics, if we had not FP on him we lose the war hands down. It was all Spain and myself could do to contain Austria at the time. We had to allow the U.S. time to build up and then when Spain went back to war U.S. could not break his NAP with germany further hindering our plans. Part of this game includes managing your economics and treasury and establishing yourself economically to support a war much like in the real world. If Germany is unable to do that we should not be looked down upon for taking advantage of his weakness as a player in those areas. Germany will get his fight soon enough.... Dear Predator, I don't see the FP on Germany as a cowardly move. Just very smart. No hard feelings here. But please ask Spain to attack again... Von Manstein Now please excuse me. I have to play Empire Total War this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templar Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Part of any game (in my humble opinion) is continually reinvestigating your position to give yourself the best chance of either (1) success or (2) revenge. I have seen more decisions made on these two premises than any other. Heck, if you want to get revenge, take it out on your enemies...don't make it a game thing. I recall in Game 62 that I felt backstabbed by an alliance who changed their minds on what a fair distribution of a country's carcass was. We ended up fighting through the end of the war. That's politics. I felt betrayed, but success for me became redefined. I still had fun and they didn't spoil the game; they merely changed my focus. What do you expect from a 40 player diplomatic-war game? Take a lesson from HeavyB. He is getting hammered, but he has pluck. He is waving a little tiny fist at the juggernauts screamng "I'll get you and your little dog too!" at the top of his lungs. That's fight! That's spirit! That's what makes killing him fun. I only wish I could send my air force up to Europe to do the same. HE IS A FUN TARGET! :-) S Vic! is a wargame. It's about fighting, killing, Victory! I personally think you should fight with honour and respect your opponent. Dirty tricks on the battlefield? Sure. But there's also the political side of the game that should be approached with ethics and repution in mind. Alliances are just prolonged cease fires. Everybody expects they will be broken sooner or later. But TA's... For me a TA is signed in blood. I'd rather die than betray my TA. Ok you can quit when the odds are against you. In turn 71 that is... Breaking a TA? Maybe if needed and agreed by both parties. But betraying a TA? Baaaaaaaaaad for your reputation! Yes I know most of my TA's VERY well. More then 15 years now I guess. I trust 'm without reservations. HeavyB is a new TA and man does he have the right attitude!!! Von Manstein I just don't figure how our actions toward Germany can be construed as cowardly. It is simply logistics, if we had not FP on him we lose the war hands down. It was all Spain and myself could do to contain Austria at the time. We had to allow the U.S. time to build up and then when Spain went back to war U.S. could not break his NAP with germany further hindering our plans. Part of this game includes managing your economics and treasury and establishing yourself economically to support a war much like in the real world. If Germany is unable to do that we should not be looked down upon for taking advantage of his weakness as a player in those areas. Germany will get his fight soon enough.... Dear Predator, I don't see the FP on Germany as a cowardly move. Just very smart. No hard feelings here. But please ask Spain to attack again... Von Manstein Now please excuse me. I have to play Empire Total War this weekend. Point well taken and I agree whole-heartedly with your assessment of TAs. Again to defend my integrity and reputation against these character attacks I'll say this. With no communication recently and mixed with the forum remarks and posts I thought that he had dropped, you guys thought that he had dropped, Predator's group thought that he had dropped. To his credit apparantly he hasn't. Good for him. He has a history of dropping when things turn against him. I have not tried to break with any of you and have not shared any intel with your opponents, ever. I'm caught between all three alliances and have been trying to negotiate my survival through politics. I haven't betrayed or backstabbed anyone! Templar of Hungary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Makum bin Sultan Al Rashi Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Again to defend my integrity and reputation against these character attacks I'll say this. With no communication recently and mixed with the forum remarks and posts I thought that he had dropped, you guys thought that he had dropped, Predator's group thought that he had dropped. To his credit apparantly he hasn't. Good for him. He has a history of dropping when things turn against him.I have not tried to break with any of you and have not shared any intel with your opponents, ever. I haven't betrayed or backstabbed anyone! Templar of Hungary Templar, Point taken too. In retrospect and with this information I do understand your position better now. Miscommunication led to an action that was not in line with the image I had (and have) from the Templar-character. Maybe that was one of the reasons for my (over-)reaction. Regards, THE SHeikh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I can attest to Templar's character from other games and he has not given battle reports or information regarding Austria's positions or run dates nor was any ever asked for. We play a clean game and let the best man win....there is no honor in winning dishonorably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost in the machine Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 As to mr Preditor ... and the fact you have found 3 or 4 other allies crazy enough to sacrifice their airforce has given you some advantage against me.. HeavyB C'mon now, the USA player has a tough time getting many forces across the Atlantic quickly. Using my air forces to help my allies and thereby ensuring I still have a place to land when I'm finally ready is hardly crazy..... ghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slicer Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 As to mr Preditor ... and the fact you have found 3 or 4 other allies crazy enough to sacrifice their airforce has given you some advantage against me.. HeavyB C'mon now, the USA player has a tough time getting many forces across the Atlantic quickly. Using my air forces to help my allies and thereby ensuring I still have a place to land when I'm finally ready is hardly crazy..... ghost Ghost - I've know you for about a billion years, so I can say this. You ARE crazy.... "crazy like a fox!" I luv ya man! Keep stickin' it to the (Germanic) Man! Slicer in the Machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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