Game 87

[Duke of York]

There is nothing wrong with us Politicians / Lawyers - I am both.

 

And Geert Wilders is your rolemodel?

[Falco]

Wish I could get some of that 2 on 1 action......for now, I'll have to live with the 7 or 8 on 2 that we've been facing.

 

You're not complaining I hope? Or is it a whine? You should be glad with that many enemies, and still be able to keep them occupied (just 16 turns left, hold on... ). Great accomplishment. You could also have a completely different scenario: Imagine being locked in the desert for 30 turns, with almost no movement, just a couple of surprise attacks every 10 turns. A front that is just 3 provinces wide, with limbo on the one side and water on the other side.

 

On the note of diplomacy....I agree that it is a key aspect of the game, but that being said, one of the weaknesses of victory is a very small player base. Many groups join multiple games together, and the same groups form in every game. That has nothing to do with diplomatic skill....more about who you know or who you joined with. There are very few players who end up with a different TA block, or even one or two different TA's every game.

 

I'm playing with two yanks in 91, one of them is a lawyer. Maybe there is something to be said about in game diplomacy, just entering and see what you end up with. 38 countries/possible allies to choose from, shouldn't be to hard.

[Falco]

Yeah lawyer indeed, twisting words, finding truths that don't exist. Let me say it to you in words that even you will understand: Cross border between Zarzis and Zwara with armies, we invite you all, commanders and soldiers alike, for very hot tea!

 

Kurassier a Lawyer? Is that a bad thing? I like him already!

You teamed up with a politician, Falco!

As far as public esteem goes, that is even worse.

 

Oh well, a politician in a lil ol village in the far east of this insignificant country. That can't be too bad. And you don't dye your hair blond.

[dageraad]

Oh well, a politician in a lil ol village in the far east of this insignificant country. That can't be too bad. And you don't dye your hair blond.

 

On the scale of the Victory player base, the Netherlands is a great power

And on the same scale, Hengelo is a major city with 4 players on a population of 80.809

And I don't have enough hair left to make dying useful, my hair approaching a Picard-like hairstyle.

And Geert Wilders indeed is a great example for me, for something that I hope never to become.

[Kurassier]

What planning? Just point your tank at the enemy and drive!!!

, we welcome you into Western Trans Jordan. Please cross the border with all your troops, the tea is ready to be served to all.

So, Western Trans Jordan, that would be Tel Aviv right?

Let me say it to you in words that even you will understand: Cross border between Zarzis and Zwara with armies,

Isn't that what I've been trying to do for quite some time now???

 

and just because you try to rename Eastern Tunisia 'Western TransJordan', doesn't make it so.

[Kurassier]

Our victory against SA and UAE was as much the result of our aggressiveness, luck, and lack of resolve of the enemy as the odds (which were only 3:2, with TJ fighting Egypt 1:1 and Turkey building concrete against the inevitable Balkan invasion).

Not sure SA really gave you much of a battle.

[Kurassier]

Oh well, a politician in a lil ol village in the far east of this insignificant country. That can't be too bad. And you don't dye your hair blond.

 

On the scale of the Victory player base, the Netherlands is a great power

And on the same scale, Hengelo is a major city with 4 players on a population of 80.809

And I don't have enough hair left to make dying useful, my hair approaching a Picard-like hairstyle.

And Geert Wilders indeed is a great example for me, for something that I hope never to become.

Ok, I give, what's with the Geert Wilders lovefest?

[Guest Spongebob]

Its Dutch for Spongebob Squarepants

[Edwin]

Its Dutch for Spongebob Squarepants

 

That's not even that incorrect

[Harbinger of Death]

On the note of diplomacy....I agree that it is a key aspect of the game, but that being said, one of the weaknesses of victory is a very small player base. Many groups join multiple games together, and the same groups form in every game. That has nothing to do with diplomatic skill....more about who you know or who you joined with. There are very few players who end up with a different TA block, or even one or two different TA's every game.

 

While I will agree that there is a SMALL group of players who will only join a game as a team, I find that the larger group of players will make political agreements of convenience. Most are willing to work with those close to them in games. In the games that I am currently playing, my TA blocks across 5 games (one game I don't have any TA's) there are only two games in which I have common TA's. My game 90 TA block has one similar TA's from game 85 and one from 91 ~ & it is not the same person. The group I am working with in game 87, I have never worked with before, actually we were at war in game 85 until mid-game.

 

So, I don't know why you have so many problems making friends in the game, maybe it's just you?

 

I wouldn't say that...as I too have had different TA's (at least some of them) in every game I have been in. However, I have encountered some of the same groups of players working together in multiple games, which is what I am referring to. I would agree with your assessment that it is not everyone....I didn't mean to allude that it was. However, it appears to be more than just a few.....

[Deathwalker]

Wish I could get some of that 2 on 1 action......for now, I'll have to live with the 7 or 8 on 2 that we've been facing.

 

On the note of diplomacy....I agree that it is a key aspect of the game, but that being said, one of the weaknesses of victory is a very small player base. Many groups join multiple games together, and the same groups form in every game. That has nothing to do with diplomatic skill....more about who you know or who you joined with. There are very few players who end up with a different TA block, or even one or two different TA's every game.

 

I disagree. At least, in this stage of the game. If you start the game neighbouring a pre-formed TA block, yes then you're pretty much screwed. And even then, good players can certainly turn the tide. Our victory against SA and UAE was as much the result of our aggressiveness, luck, and lack of resolve of the enemy as the odds (which were only 3:2, with TJ fighting Egypt 1:1 and Turkey building concrete against the inevitable Balkan invasion).

 

But after turn 10 or 20 that influence is pretty much gone. Alliances have been formed and the flow of the game has been decided. The West European Alliance lost for a big part BECAUSE they were such a powerful, initially succesful block. That drew all enemies against them. And at the same time Hungary acted as the hinch, connecting the Balkan and North Europe Alliances. That was the deciding factor in this game and is IMO the biggest diplomatic succes that can be be achieved in the game and only by a solo (or at most duo) player.

 

So, yes, diplomacy plays a big bart in the game, but, aside from giving you a better chance to survive the first 10 turns (which is fairly valuable in it's own end), it is IMO more harmful than helpful to sign up as a pre-formed block.

 

I am not buying. Victory is a numbers game and multiple Total Alliances working together makes the game untenable for a smaller group. Experience and skill can make a big difference, as can adpting a defensive posture as I have done in Game 87 since realizing the odds were stacked against my group. However, no amount of experience or skill can overcome 3+ to 1 odds in terms of units, production, etc.

 

Deathwalker

US-87

[Deathwalker]

On the note of diplomacy....I agree that it is a key aspect of the game, but that being said, one of the weaknesses of victory is a very small player base. Many groups join multiple games together, and the same groups form in every game. That has nothing to do with diplomatic skill....more about who you know or who you joined with. There are very few players who end up with a different TA block, or even one or two different TA's every game.

 

While I will agree that there is a SMALL group of players who will only join a game as a team, I find that the larger group of players will make political agreements of convenience. Most are willing to work with those close to them in games. In the games that I am currently playing, my TA blocks across 5 games (one game I don't have any TA's) there are only two games in which I have common TA's. My game 90 TA block has one similar TA's from game 85 and one from 91 ~ & it is not the same person. The group I am working with in game 87, I have never worked with before, actually we were at war in game 85 until mid-game.

 

So, I don't know why you have so many problems making friends in the game, maybe it's just you?

 

I wouldn't say that...as I too have had different TA's (at least some of them) in every game I have been in. However, I have encountered some of the same groups of players working together in multiple games, which is what I am referring to. I would agree with your assessment that it is not everyone....I didn't mean to allude that it was. However, it appears to be more than just a few.....

 

Based on a couple of his posts and some second-hand communications, Earthling seems to have some axe to grind with us. Not sure what it is, but mabe he will enlighten us???

 

Deathwalker

US-87

[Monty]

 

I am not buying. Victory is a numbers game and multiple Total Alliances working together makes the game untenable for a smaller group. Experience and skill can make a big difference, as can adpting a defensive posture as I have done in Game 87 since realizing the odds were stacked against my group. However, no amount of experience or skill can overcome 3+ to 1 odds in terms of units, production, etc.

 

Deathwalker

US-87

 

Well if you feel so agrieved then why the hell are you still playing and paying good dollars

[Harbinger of Death]

 

I am not buying. Victory is a numbers game and multiple Total Alliances working together makes the game untenable for a smaller group. Experience and skill can make a big difference, as can adpting a defensive posture as I have done in Game 87 since realizing the odds were stacked against my group. However, no amount of experience or skill can overcome 3+ to 1 odds in terms of units, production, etc.

 

Deathwalker

US-87

 

Well if you feel so agrieved then why the hell are you still playing and paying good dollars

 

It's simple....we continue with this game because it has been fun. That, and we will take pride in doing enough damage to the European and Scandinavian alliances that another alliance will win, one that we feel has used less game-imbalancing tactics. Schadenfreude!

[Duke of York]

Wish I could get some of that 2 on 1 action......for now, I'll have to live with the 7 or 8 on 2 that we've been facing.

 

On the note of diplomacy....I agree that it is a key aspect of the game, but that being said, one of the weaknesses of victory is a very small player base. Many groups join multiple games together, and the same groups form in every game. That has nothing to do with diplomatic skill....more about who you know or who you joined with. There are very few players who end up with a different TA block, or even one or two different TA's every game.

 

I disagree. At least, in this stage of the game. If you start the game neighbouring a pre-formed TA block, yes then you're pretty much screwed. And even then, good players can certainly turn the tide. Our victory against SA and UAE was as much the result of our aggressiveness, luck, and lack of resolve of the enemy as the odds (which were only 3:2, with TJ fighting Egypt 1:1 and Turkey building concrete against the inevitable Balkan invasion).

 

But after turn 10 or 20 that influence is pretty much gone. Alliances have been formed and the flow of the game has been decided. The West European Alliance lost for a big part BECAUSE they were such a powerful, initially succesful block. That drew all enemies against them. And at the same time Hungary acted as the hinch, connecting the Balkan and North Europe Alliances. That was the deciding factor in this game and is IMO the biggest diplomatic succes that can be be achieved in the game and only by a solo (or at most duo) player.

 

So, yes, diplomacy plays a big bart in the game, but, aside from giving you a better chance to survive the first 10 turns (which is fairly valuable in it's own end), it is IMO more harmful than helpful to sign up as a pre-formed block.

 

I am not buying. Victory is a numbers game and multiple Total Alliances working together makes the game untenable for a smaller group. Experience and skill can make a big difference, as can adpting a defensive posture as I have done in Game 87 since realizing the odds were stacked against my group. However, no amount of experience or skill can overcome 3+ to 1 odds in terms of units, production, etc.

 

Deathwalker

US-87

I'm not saying you don't need alliances to win or even do well. You do. What I'm saying is that IMO the best alliances are not pre-formed, but are formed in-game. Being a 5 man pre-formed alliance paints a big bullseye on you and that is a hindrance. There are big advantages as well, you know what you get as alliances, you have a much bigger chance to survive the crucial first 10-20 turns and you can pay of lot less of attention to diplomacy and concentrate on the game.

 

However, as a solo player you can potentially make much stronger alliances, based on what is happening in-game, especially if you are the deciding factor for a nearby initial war. As a big pre-formed alliance you risk either being too close to each other, reducing your room to expand (happened to my alliance in V87) or you are too far apart making it hard to properly support each other (happened to us in V89). You won't have that problem if you had a good solo start. Of course, it might take 3 or more bad games for each good one, but if you're a reasonable diplomat and willing to run the risk, more power to you. The fun is in the first 20 turns anyway.

 

And I wouldn't underestimate your chances to win either. A lot of the winning conditions are not how big you are but how much you killed. And nobody is going to be big with 19 players still in the game. Playing 8 to 2 gives you a lot of chance to kill lots of stuff and I know from experience that Algeria and Tunesia have killed lots of stuff too.