game 93

[Marklen X]

Let's stick with facts shall we?

 

Spain DECLARED war on our group (after discussing how to work out a solution how to move into Europe)

 

You take a loan and spend on ENDLESS bombers, what's fair about endless cash?

 

So you get your airbase isolated so half of your bombers can't fly anymore? Whose fault is that? It's a risk you were willing to take so you pay the consequences. You also did not evacuate all the turns one of our armies was in the province.

 

 

I expect nothing is going to convince you but I hope the other players at least get a more accurate picture of what is actually going on. We've played fair for over 20 years, stuck to any agreements we made, we also played for fun and not too proud to acknowledge defeat when we screwed up to a better player/alliance.

 

It's a game and I hope it will continue for much longer allthough I fear that's just wishfull thinking on my behalf.

 

Not true, Spain declared war on USA, who owned the provinces on my northern border, GB, Canada, Ireland and Lowlands DW on Spain.

[Thors]

Mark, I understand and sympathize with your situation(s). Firstly being Spain with German tech, you really had no reasonably fun choice than to go through France. But you had to know if you DW'd one of the Atlantic's, in essence you DW'd them all.
What everyone may not know, is that you had a chance to work with France and my TA group to fight them together. Alan was willing to concede the loss of his Nation in a combined effort that would help the rest of us (in particular Germany and Italy) to continue. You'd end up owning most of France if we worked it out. Unfortunately, your team-mates made it clear that we could not work with you guys, when Morocco and Algeria attacked Italy.
Your groups actions drove us to make peace and work with our former enemies. Besides, we found common ground wanting to make an ally of yours wind up on the losing side of v93 due to the nature of his gaming personality

By the way, despite Predators delusional thinking, there really wasn't an orchestrated plan/deal to get Greece& company at war with your Group. In fact, going way back it was one of yours that DW'd them first. Morocco and Tunisia just made for preferred enemies. They were gobbling up all of Africa and were into the Middle East.

I do agree that being on the recieving side of FP, CL, FP, BPA etc. sucks. I agree with much of what was said on this topic, but it's tempered with several truths. We have yet to see the cycle repeated, and I trust the Atlantic's to play fair since now it's obvious the tactics were borderline... But legal! Also you had your chance to help my group, but chose not to.

[Marklen X]

Much of what you say is true Thors, but a couple of minor points. First, I was never offered most of France. I had a deal with Alan to not attack each other through turn 20. After that, I approached Alan to see if he would be interested in a joint effort to expel the Atlantics from France, he said he would get back to me. Two turn cycles later, I had no response, and emailed him to see what was up. He replied that your group had decided to go in another direction. Then I DW France and attacked.

 

When I attacked France, a USA province was in my path. The turn I did a DW on USA, Ireland, Canada, GB and USA landed troops in Iberia. Do you not believe that they were already planning that? There is no chance that those amphibious forces just happened to be passing by.

 

There was never any question in anybodies mind that I would have to go to war with the Atlantics. The only question was would I have war with your group also. Now that France is gone anyway, and you are facing a powerful Atlantic alliance, you may question your decision, but that is none of my business.

 

I have no knowledge of any issue you may have with either of my TA's, I have known both for many years, and consider them fine players and decent people, this is the first I have heard there may be something personal there.

 

And of course, as Spain with German tech, an alliance with France long term is impossible. A TA could work with great effort, but an alliance just means I spend the game in Iberia.

[Mickey]

(..) you are facing a powerful Atlantic alliance (..)

 

Aah, but they have the awesome Iceland now on their side, which defeated Norway and Sweden in three turns!

 

*flexes muscles and builds 10 P-47C groups*

[Thors]

Nah, there's nothing personal at all, that's why I said gaming personality. IRL I bet we could all share a beer, a joke, and become friends.

Notice I said "What everyone may not know". That includes you on some details, because we were talking of hindsight issues. Generally this is just conversation with the interest of understanding how things played out the way they did.
Often I find myself saying this: Perception is a funny thing; we can experience the same situation but view it differently.
This is how my TA group experienced the situation:
Alan was asked to contact you and see if you were receptive of working with us. The group alone discussed details such as explained In the previous post. From our perspective, you did not contact Alan first with the intent of talking about possibilities (prior to Italy being attacked), and I recall seeing the email where Alan initiated it, and you eventually replied. It seemed to us that your reply was delayed. What I recall reading was you re-stating your original deal of no combat till tech 20 (or something like that). Then went on to vagaries, with the inclination to talk further... What stopped it from going further was the attack on Italy that followed that letter almost to the day. Can you see it from our point of view? We were prepared to let you claim a big chunk of France to work with us (remember, I said France was consigned to fall)... Alan wrote you, but there was a considerable delay in communication... We get a semi vague reply, and before we could get into offers... WHAM, Italy is hit. The unanimous reaction: We had our answer.
You yourself in a later situation claimed you had little influence on your (then) two TA's. Yes you respect them, yes you know them to be good players. But still you firmly expressed a lack of influence on them.
So could you have pulled their attack on Italy to make a better situation for yourself? That later message would indicate a big fat no.
There's also the apparent view that they could not/would not help keep your morale above zero. That you had to ask my group to help raise it is a further indicator to your unfortunate TA situation, isn't it?

Anyway, in a future game if we are in a mutual situation you can count on me to be a better Ally

[Thors]

 

(..) you are facing a powerful Atlantic alliance (..)

 

Aah, but they have the awesome Iceland now on their side, which defeated Norway and Sweden in three turns!

 

*flexes muscles and builds 10 P-47C groups*

 

 

ALL PHEAR THE MIGHTY MOUSE!!!!!

 

[Thors]

Oh wait, it's just Mickey

[Mickey]

*pouts*

[Thors]

Don't pout, the second post was just facetious!

BTW, are you stockpiling the WMD sheep? The exploding sheep thoroughly demoralized Norway and Sweden after all.

[Thors]

For those that are not aware; Sweden, Finland, Norway, north and central Russia have been out of the game. I can't say exactly when they dropped, but it's been about 3 turns or more.

 

Why? I can only speculate that they lost hope of winning Victory, and apparently that was a priority over having a good fight.

They could have waged a good fight, and that saddens me. Sure Iceland had well executed landings, but they had geography and logistics on their side. Sure we put up a good counteroffensive in Germany, but they had significant land and air forces to go tit for tat. As for the Polish front, I was shocked that I didn't see more troops. The potential was certainly there. Poland and I went into defensive mode once we secured the important Polish cities, and expected a counterattack that never came.

 

What a disappointment.

 

How many turns till end game? I think all but Italy may die of boredom

[Predator]

Ill be your huckleberry...

[Inspector Gadget]

Well that monumentally sucks. It's situations like this that need a solution, possibly beyond the current limitations of how vacated positions can be filled. Otherwise, the game could be all but over for the remaining players, at least as a competitive combat game.

[Mickey]

Given they already took 3/4 turns of beatings from us, not all of those countries would be viable to take over. Norway has virtually no production left, Central Russia has lost most of it's pop. The other countries still have (almost all of) their homeland intact and still have their air force, though the computer of course disbands all bomber groups. If anyone knows of three players that would be willing to fill in the gap, that would be great. We did the same in Vic91 where a group totally quit and we (as adversaries of that group, requested they be repopulated with players. If none of the other active players in Vic93 object, Russ can quickly activate three players... we just need to find them.

 

If we don't find other players, i see three options for Iceland:

1) i break with the Centrals, join the SAM-alliance and join the Iberia-fray

2) i break with the Centrals and fight them for Scandinavia

3) the Centrals break all previous alliances and spread out to create fun chaos all over the map.

 

What's not an option is playing the last 32 turns against the computer.

[Mickey]

Ok, so who wants a piece of Iceland and is prepared to try and get it?

[Predator]

Let's see the groups of Rumania/Greece , Italy/ Czech/ Poland/ Germany/france , all the islands and USA , Canada

Essentially all these countries either stopped fighting each other or agreed not to fight each other to ban together to fight the Scandinavian and/or African groups... And now we are complaining about not having opponents!?

Priceless...