Locklyn Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 One lift would indeed be if RTG implemented what they originally said that the racial space combat bonus did, ie enable you to target specific higher tonnage ships and capture etc...My races have always had high SCB and have always trudged through massive amounts of screens as well as never been able to capture vessels in combat despite having the right weaponry for it, the only one of all known players to me that have been able to capture vessels is MMB. If anyone else has managed this please speak up and share what you did? As for rear echelon targetting, it should be a given with naval leaders present, high SCB and targetting equipment but apparently it isn't enough and has been a speedbump that RTG has themselves maneouvered into with the current game design so untill we all discover the holy grail of "screen swatter tech" it is where we will be. Cheers /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 ...so untill we all discover the holy grail of "screen swatter tech" it is where we will be. And whatever that tech is, it is buried sufficiently deep in the trees that it will take a substantial period of time to achieve. In the meantime, the junk screens will be a necessitated tactic on both defense and offense. And work arounds such as simply increasing minimal tonnages or slip costs will not do much to dissuade larger empires with 'deep core surveyed' indistries from continuing to crank out the swarms that are so vital to naval success. So barring a significant change in the rule mechanics, I think little will change in regards to naval tactics from a period of time measured in years, not months. And turn processing time is only going to increase... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 And turn processing time is only going to increase... Yes, I can see it now. A year from now we'll be getting our turns Tuesday morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Turns??? Anyone??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodookus Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Maybe turns should be due on Tuesday instead of Wednesday? Maybe Pete should fess up and tell everyone how to defeat the small screen strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Maybe turns should be due on Tuesday instead of Wednesday? Maybe Pete should fess up and tell everyone how to defeat the small screen strategy. Try cloaked ships and just slip right by the screens..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Maybe turns should be due on Tuesday instead of Wednesday? Maybe Pete should fess up and tell everyone how to defeat the small screen strategy. thats not point... Defeating the small screen strategy is rather simple. The problem is that those that rely on the small screen defense and offense( most of us) build MASSIVE amounts of them and THIS causes turn processing to grind to a slow crawl as Pete has said before. Way way back when the game was just starting Pete told us that BIG ships were the way to go. Somewhere along the line however the itsy bisty screen ship seems to have dominated the scene to the point where there are so many of them them that the computers are having a bit of a time keeping track of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodookus Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Ultimately the point is I'm sitting here waiting for my turn on Saturday afternoon with no idea how much longer things will take. This because an effective strategy is slowing down processing. This tells me that there is a need for better processing to handle the additional load or for processing to begin earlier so that we get the returns at a reasonable time. Aside from those two options another would be for Pete to tell EVERYONE what this simple method is to overcome small screen strategy. People will not waste resouces on an ineffective tactic and small screens will go away overnight. Problem solved. Pete tell us how to relieve your pain and it will be done in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Maybe turns should be due on Tuesday instead of Wednesday? Maybe Pete should fess up and tell everyone how to defeat the small screen strategy. I second this. I really need the first weekend for doing my turns. With turns croping up on sunday morning a whole day is lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Maybe turns should be due on Tuesday instead of Wednesday? Maybe Pete should fess up and tell everyone how to defeat the small screen strategy. I second this. I really need the first weekend for doing my turns. With turns croping up on sunday morning a whole day is lost. I agree, and I even have the equipment for creating 250 FC fleets easily Cheers /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virmilyn Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I would settle for just the reporting of when we are going to recieve the turn results. The wait is a killer. Not knowing is very bothersome. I can handle not getting the turns early if I just know. Can we get a better time estimate? Possible at regular updates. Friday 8pm, Saturday 8am, Saturday noon, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Capitan Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Without some major overhauling of game mechanics, screens are here to stay. Which means the only real solution is in the programming/turn processing. SN is an open-ended game and very fluid as to where any one empire is technologically at any given time. At certain points in the development of an empire, small screens are very effective. Any number of empires can be in this position at any given time, meaning that someone will always be using lots of screens. Even if there is technology out there that is guaranteed to defeat any and all small screen tactics, you have to get to the tech first. In the meantime, and under the right circumstances, screens will still be very effective. All of the proposed in-game solutions to the screen "problem" can be countered: Targeting the rear deploy locations --- move your screens to the back. Target only "big" ships (whatever that means) --- put up some "big" armor plugs and spread out your firepower amongst smaller ships. High fire control --- build more screens. Increase the minimum tonnage --- build lots of bigger screens (which as someone else pointed out is very doable as production levels increase). Sneak by defending fleets/screens with cloaked ships --- well, at some point those defending fleets will still have to be taken out. Also, there is tech that allows for the increased chance of detection of cloaked ships. etc, etc. One game mechanics solution that would eliminate huge numbers of screes is to limit the number of ships per fleet and fleets per location. However, this would absolutely ruin the game to the point that no one would play. I have no idea if increasing processing time by means of programming or other factors on Pete's end is even possible, but I see that as the only true solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Without some major overhauling of game mechanics, screens are here to stay. Which means the only real solution is in the programming/turn processing. SN is an open-ended game and very fluid as to where any one empire is technologically at any given time. At certain points in the development of an empire, small screens are very effective. Any number of empires can be in this position at any given time, meaning that someone will always be using lots of screens. Even if there is technology out there that is guaranteed to defeat any and all small screen tactics, you have to get to the tech first. In the meantime, and under the right circumstances, screens will still be very effective. All of the proposed in-game solutions to the screen "problem" can be countered: Targeting the rear deploy locations --- move your screens to the back. Target only "big" ships (whatever that means) --- put up some "big" armor plugs and spread out your firepower amongst smaller ships. High fire control --- build more screens. Increase the minimum tonnage --- build lots of bigger screens (which as someone else pointed out is very doable as production levels increase). Sneak by defending fleets/screens with cloaked ships --- well, at some point those defending fleets will still have to be taken out. Also, there is tech that allows for the increased chance of detection of cloaked ships. etc, etc. One game mechanics solution that would eliminate huge numbers of screes is to limit the number of ships per fleet and fleets per location. However, this would absolutely ruin the game to the point that no one would play. I have no idea if increasing processing time by means of programming or other factors on Pete's end is even possible, but I see that as the only true solution. not exactly.. but I like that idea. How about limiting the size of the fleet that can be controlled? With this size based on Level of leader present and firecontrol and a few other techs. this would I believe force players to rely less on screens as that would take up slots in thier command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Right now I would be happy with any sort of notice on when the turns will be coming? Either wait up, or catch a movie and hit the town since the turns are coming tomorrow? Cheers /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 not exactly.. but I like that idea. How about limiting the size of the fleet that can be controlled? With thissize based on Level of leader present and firecontrol and a few other techs. this would I believe force players to rely less on screens as that would take up slots in thier command. That could be interesting. Fleets without characters are limited to 100 ships. Fleets with characters have an increasing amount based on level. Well, I've given up on turns today. I'm off to my other job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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