Official: Turns Are In Thread

[El Capitan]

Again, you've had more than enough time to figure out if this game is meeting your needs or not. If you're not getting the results you expect for your $100/month then you have the choice to spend your money somewhere else and leave the rest of us to enjoy the game.

 

[Jodookus]

What's the point in getting personal? I'm no Locklyn fan but back off El. He does raise valid points.

 

Why do turns keep arriving late? Why don't we get responses to questions? Everyone has a personal life that's true. But when you run a business, you DO have responsibilites to your customers. Things like timely service, responses to game related questions, etc. Perhaps if the business can't maintain adequate service, the business needs to bring on more help to alleviate the bottleneck and get to a reasonable level of performance.

[Dr.0]

Hi -

 

I'm confused. Why is getting turns Sunday morning considered getting turns late? Sure, they are later than they used to be. Sure it would be nice to get then Friday night and have 2 weekends to prepare next batch. But, it still is better than Supernova II's snail mail. And, as owner of two turn-0 empires, I have no recollection of any promise of turn results returning by a certain time. You get then when you get them.

 

I play the game assuming that zero changes/improvements are forthcoming. If they do great. If not, I still will play the game.

 

I was in the first region of Supernova II - Aldebaran and played 3.5 years until it looked like I had reached the design limits of the game and there was nothing worthwhile left to do. There is still much to explore and discover in this game.

 

/Jack

 

64 - Jhorlian Hegemony

2136 - Bosonic Mass

[Jodookus]

Doc,

 

Using that logic, why would getting turns Monday or Tuesday or one day before they are due back to RTG be considered late?

 

Somewhere there is a line between acceptable and late. Based on the general kicking and screaming and gnashing of teeth that goes on if turns arrive later than mid-day Saturday, it appears that the boundary line is closer to Friday or Saturday morning than late Saturday or beyond. This is a business. The way to keep a business going it to satisfy customer expectations. RTG isn't currently doing that in many cases.

 

What of the point that Locklyn made regarding the answering of game related questions? If there are mistakes made during processing, or questions related to game matters, its incumbent on the business to provide responses IN A TIMELY MANNER. If the business can't do that, and assuming they have the best interest of the customer in mind, they need to find a way to do this. One way would be to hire a minimum wage type data entry person to speed things up. Not unreasonable and it would free up Pete/Russ's time to handle more important issues like providing timely responses.

 

As far as ongoing game development, again Locklyn is right. The rulebooks make mention of things such as religion and diplomacy, spies, etc. There are a number of different features that haven't been implemented. It's REASONABLE to continue to question when they will be implemented. What's unreasonable it to continue to let it slip, month after month and expect that no one questions why it's not been brought online. As with anything, stagnation means death... maybe not today and maybe not in a couple months but eventually people will get sick and tired and call it quits.

 

Maybe I'm missing something but the potential customer base for a game of this type is not great. Most people are looking for shoot-em-ups so alienating your customer base is a great way to put yourself out of business.

[Virmilyn]

Hi -

 

I'm confused. Why is getting turns Sunday morning considered getting turns late? Sure, they are later than they used to be. Sure it would be nice to get then Friday night and have 2 weekends to prepare next batch. But, it still is better than Supernova II's snail mail. And, as owner of two turn-0 empires, I have no recollection of any promise of turn results returning by a certain time. You get then when you get them.

 

I play the game assuming that zero changes/improvements are forthcoming. If they do great. If not, I still will play the game.

 

I was in the first region of Supernova II - Aldebaran and played 3.5 years until it looked like I had reached the design limits of the game and there was nothing worthwhile left to do. There is still much to explore and discover in this game.

 

/Jack

 

64 - Jhorlian Hegemony

2136 - Bosonic Mass

 

So lets un confuse you.

 

This is not a group of people that get together in a dark room and play together. This is a group of people that get together and pay for a service. I like playing with everyone in SN, I enjoy the game we all play (the service), we all pay for the service. It is obvious from your comments, and others, you are happy with the entire package. Speaking for myself, I accept the game as is and enjoy playing, but I expect a level of service. I believe this is not a primary buisness, so my expectation is not of strict compliance. But courtesy should be forfront in any service oriented buisness. We can argue about implied this and expected that from past preformance. Good service = courtesy and respect to patrons.

[Sakarissa]

I agree that there is no deadline for turn results to arrive on our doorstep.

 

I also agree that questions put forth to RTG often don't get responses. Two turn results ago we has the research report snafu. One of my empire was affected since it finished several techs that turn. One of the new techs that turned up was Tckon 68. This last turn results, I put in an ANZ for Tckon 68. I made sure it was spelled correctly. When I got my results, I didn't get the ANZ since the game program said I hadn't uncovered it yet. My research report for that turn had it on the list. I sent in an email to Pete explaining the situation and I felt it was related to the research report snafu. All I wanted was him to send me to ANZ results via email. I haven't gotten a response back at all. By all rights I should have the ANZ for that tech yet a bug in the game prevented it. I've got no problem with bugs. We identify them and RTG fixes them. At least in theory. I shouldn't have to resubmit another ANZ order to get what I should already have. Once they send me the ANZ I'll be happy.

 

I'm not trying to flame anyone. I'm just putting this up as an example. I understand personal lives and taking care of our families. That's a good thing. It's also good business practice to respond to legitimate inquiries like mine. If I had gotten a response saying "Okay, I'm looking into it but it may take a few days" I would have been a lot more patient about things.

 

It's amazing how cranky we all get while waiting for turn results. Go outside. Being in the sun won't kill you. Breath fresh air. Take a walk.

 

 

Sakarissa

The Circle

[Dr.0]

Hi,

 

OK - comments on customer service. I learned early on that e-mail and forums do not get a timely response. But if there is a problem with turn results that is reported on forums, it does get a quick response.

 

On the other hand - Pete gives great response on phone. I have called him several/many times with a problem and it is almost always resolved while I'm on phone with him. Sometimes I have made a mistake (and I suffer), and sometimes it has been a RTG mistake - and then it gets fixed. Once a very serious error was made by RTG. He notified me and I called and we discussed a proper resolution which involved several hours of work by him.

 

I realize not everyone wants to pay for long distance phone calls and that he is not there all the time. So, if he doesnt pick up by 3rd or 4th ring, I hangup and try again another day (or several hours later).

 

Supernova is not as good as it could be, but it is the best on the market. Yes we pay to play. Yes, there are improvements that could be made in the game. For example, I wish that we would could get a progress report on turn processing at a regular time on Friday.

 

But, we become attached to our empires and therefore probably put up with more problems. And I can see where the problems could outweigh the enjoyment of playing which leads to a big dilemna - whether to continue to play or not.

 

Supernova is not my primay gaming passion, but i do look forward to getting my turn results and I do somehow find the time to do some sort of turn each cycle. If it was my primary, I probably would be less patient with it that I am. I played EVE for 18 months and have been playing WoW for last year as my primary gaming interest.

 

Jack

[rfouasnon]

I have played WoW for the past 3.5 years....it was my primary game , since the games I have been playing while I was in Europe folded.....the game has a massive habit of taking over your life.....you are online from when you get home , until you fall asleep late in the night.....so about 5-6 hours per workday , and more on the weekends....you are expected to be there for your guild , and you expect your guild to be there for you....don't want that , so now my ultra warlock sits around in electronic limbo ( I still have the account active , and I might want to go into SSC if I rejoin a guild )......almost next to no customer service needed in WoW....this game is different , and now it is my primary game , but I can play when I want. What I am not understanding , is why we have a deadline of Wednesday to get the turns in , then why does one wait until Friday ( or it seems later even) to start processing the turns.....do the turns take two days to process? We send the turns as an electronic file....no inputting of orders....why does one not start processing the orders on Thursday if the turns take 2 days to process....do they take 2 days? Processing the turns should be the same each cycle , with the possible bug every so once in awhile......working on code or adding the unfinished parts of the game should be done any time other than when the turns are to be processed...and even in the snail mail days of SNII , the turns were always finished like clockwork by a certain time....usually shortly after turn in deadline....I drove numerous times from Frankfurt , Germany to Dordrecht to pick up my turn instead of waiting for 2 days for mail....Paul or Wim knew me well....hehe , no speed limit on the autobahn made it a sort of holiday trip of 14 hours from Aschaffenburg and back...but back to the game , I do think that it is only fair that if we turn in our turns by Wednesday , that we can have an email late Friday or Saturday morning ,with our turn results . And Saturday morning leaves alot of leeway . I have had 6-7 turns so far , so a newbie with this particular game....I have gotten a turn on Friday , most turns sometime on Saturday , and a turn on Sunday....why this huge difference?

[El Capitan]

Why do turns keep arriving late?

 

I guess I missed it. When/where did anyone guarantee that results would come in at a certain time?

 

 

Perhaps if the business can't maintain adequate service, the business needs to bring on more help to alleviate the bottleneck and get to a reasonable level of performance.

 

 

Go back and read RTG's posts the last time this issue came to a head. They discussed in length the limitations involved in running a small business dedicated to an even smaller faction of gamers.

 

Do I want my turns sooner? Yes.

Do I get frustrated when I don't have the weekend to work on them? Yes.

Do I want all of the intended aspects of the game to be up and running? Yes.

Is it frustrating that they are not all implemented? Yes.

Am I willing to continue playing the game knowing all of the above? That's the decision everyone has to make. For me the answer is yes.

 

It would be different if this were a new issue. But it's not. This issue has been going on for 5 years. Again, more than enough time to decide if the game is right for you.

[Breoghan]

Ok, I'm a comparative newbie in the game - but from what I'm seeing, a lot of the players who are talking about how frustrating it is, and how it could drive players away from the game ---- well ----- they're core players! They've been in the game virtually from the start.

 

Seems to me like they are answering 'yes' too, despite their frustrations.

 

This has become my primary game in wargaming, and yes, I would think it wonderful if it was perfect. The trouble is that perfection costs, both in time and effort, and in cold hard cash (even minimum wage data entry staff would add to the cost of playing - and not everyone is mega-rich enough to have unlimited budgets for hobbies in this limited numbers fan-base). Personally, I reckon we are all, newbies and old hands alike, getting a pretty good deal for our money.

[WKE235]

Ahh, I should have checked the forums three hours ago. Such refreshing dialogue is bound to put a spring in my step!

 

You're obviously not Gellin man. You got to get Gellin. That'll put a spring in your step.

 

Gellin

 

[Jodookus]

Hi,

 

OK - comments on customer service. I learned early on that e-mail and forums do not get a timely response. But if there is a problem with turn results that is reported on forums, it does get a quick response.

 

On the other hand - Pete gives great response on phone. I have called him several/many times with a problem and it is almost always resolved while I'm on phone with him. Sometimes I have made a mistake (and I suffer), and sometimes it has been a RTG mistake - and then it gets fixed. Once a very serious error was made by RTG. He notified me and I called and we discussed a proper resolution which involved several hours of work by him.

 

I realize not everyone wants to pay for long distance phone calls and that he is not there all the time. So, if he doesnt pick up by 3rd or 4th ring, I hangup and try again another day (or several hours later).

 

Supernova is not as good as it could be, but it is the best on the market. Yes we pay to play. Yes, there are improvements that could be made in the game. For example, I wish that we would could get a progress report on turn processing at a regular time on Friday.

 

But, we become attached to our empires and therefore probably put up with more problems. And I can see where the problems could outweigh the enjoyment of playing which leads to a big dilemna - whether to continue to play or not.

 

Supernova is not my primay gaming passion, but i do look forward to getting my turn results and I do somehow find the time to do some sort of turn each cycle. If it was my primary, I probably would be less patient with it that I am. I played EVE for 18 months and have been playing WoW for last year as my primary gaming interest.

 

Jack

 

Dr O.

 

My experience with Pete on the phone has always been positive. My experiences with emails have not. Typically emails never get responded to until a day or two AFTER turn submissions, at which point a response is usually moot. So I can totally understand where Locklyn is coming from and he shouldn't be forced to expect timely responses only through the phone especially when he lives 1/2 a world away. That's the wonder of electronic communications... instant or near instant transmission BOTH ways.

 

Nope SN isn't perfect. But to sit by and maintain silence is unreasonable. As you suggest, why can't we get a 'status update' at the same time every Friday 'processing night'? Pete can take 5 minutes out to log in, type a line or two, and get back to his business of processing turns. NOT AN UNREASONABLE EXPECTATION.

 

SN is my primary gaming passion. I've played EVE, WoW, EQ, EQ2, Star Wars Galaxies, UO, etc. Problem with those games is that inevitably it gets boing and repetative to me. However, the decision to drop is never an easy one as investing hours of time and large quantities of money tends to make it hard to bail. You should have seen how long it took me to finally drop EQ. Sort of picks up it's own intertia given enough time and money.

 

Right now, that's where I am with SN. I've spent hours and hours strategizing and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. It's very difficult to drop at this point as I'm getting my empire to a point where I want to be. But to sit here and be silent and 'take it as it is' isn't acceptable.

 

I have played WoW for the past 3.5 years....it was my primary game , since the games I have been playing while I was in Europe folded.....the game has a massive habit of taking over your life.....you are online from when you get home , until you fall asleep late in the night.....so about 5-6 hours per workday , and more on the weekends....you are expected to be there for your guild , and you expect your guild to be there for you....don't want that , so now my ultra warlock sits around in electronic limbo ( I still have the account active , and I might want to go into SSC if I rejoin a guild )......almost next to no customer service needed in WoW....this game is different , and now it is my primary game , but I can play when I want. What I am not understanding , is why we have a deadline of Wednesday to get the turns in , then why does one wait until Friday ( or it seems later even) to start processing the turns.....do the turns take two days to process? We send the turns as an electronic file....no inputting of orders....why does one not start processing the orders on Thursday if the turns take 2 days to process....do they take 2 days? Processing the turns should be the same each cycle , with the possible bug every so once in awhile......working on code or adding the unfinished parts of the game should be done any time other than when the turns are to be processed...and even in the snail mail days of SNII , the turns were always finished like clockwork by a certain time....usually shortly after turn in deadline....I drove numerous times from Frankfurt , Germany to Dordrecht to pick up my turn instead of waiting for 2 days for mail....Paul or Wim knew me well....hehe , no speed limit on the autobahn made it a sort of holiday trip of 14 hours from Aschaffenburg and back...but back to the game , I do think that it is only fair that if we turn in our turns by Wednesday , that we can have an email late Friday or Saturday morning ,with our turn results . And Saturday morning leaves alot of leeway . I have had 6-7 turns so far , so a newbie with this particular game....I have gotten a turn on Friday , most turns sometime on Saturday , and a turn on Sunday....why this huge difference?

 

 

EXACTLY rf. Why is it if we have submission deadlines of Wednesday nite do the turns take two or more days to process? Maybe we in 'player land' don't understand what it takes... I know I don't have a concept. But, when I see some occasions where we get turns back on Friday afternoon/evenings (not recently), then some days where it takes to Sunday night or Monday to get them back I begin to wonder whether RTG is slacking off and taking care of personal business ahead of their paying customers.

 

As many have said, Pete and Russ are humans and have a personal life. However, why doesn't SNROTE take precedence over their personal lives for two nights every two weeks? Is my expectation that unreasonable? Sure extenuating circumstances happen but they shouldn't be the norm. They should be few and far between.

[MadMartinB]

Again I find myself on Locklyn's side. We've been in the game since turn 0 and been at "war" for going on 5 years? My home empire "Eyre" has 6 home worlds and the time to process orders is intensive. I haven't done a full set of orders for a few months. With turns coming in late on Sunday I lose one of the weekends and between kids, work, wife, friends, skiing and vacation I don't get the energy to do the turns.

 

I'm going to basketball with one of the players tonight and on my topic of conversation is dropping. I can use the money in others ways...

 

[Jodookus]

Why do turns keep arriving late?

 

I guess I missed it. When/where did anyone guarantee that results would come in at a certain time?

 

 

Perhaps if the business can't maintain adequate service, the business needs to bring on more help to alleviate the bottleneck and get to a reasonable level of performance.

 

 

Go back and read RTG's posts the last time this issue came to a head. They discussed in length the limitations involved in running a small business dedicated to an even smaller faction of gamers.

 

Do I want my turns sooner? Yes.

Do I get frustrated when I don't have the weekend to work on them? Yes.

Do I want all of the intended aspects of the game to be up and running? Yes.

Is it frustrating that they are not all implemented? Yes.

Am I willing to continue playing the game knowing all of the above? That's the decision everyone has to make. For me the answer is yes.

 

It would be different if this were a new issue. But it's not. This issue has been going on for 5 years. Again, more than enough time to decide if the game is right for you.

 

El,

 

As I stated previously, using that kind of logic would make it acceptable to expect to see turns a week or more after submission. After all, no one ever promised we wouldn't see them one day before the next cycle is due. Where is the boundary between acceptable and unacceptable response times? I believe it's for the players to determine. Many of the more vocal players deem that late Saturday or beyond is getting into the unacceptable timeframe. Voice of the customer.

 

Yes, this is a small business with a very limited quantity of people interested in this type of gaming experience. That being the case it seems that it's a good idea to try to please most of the people most of the time. Something as simple as consistent processing times would shut many people up. All that would be needed to accomplish that tactic is to dedicate two days every two weeks to accomplishing that task, TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL ELSE (with the rare exceptions happening).

[MadMartinB]

I would have to say that turn processing is a given event. It occurs at the same time every 2 weeks. If I had that as a deadline I would have to schedule my life to accomodate that event. While I understand other events impacting the time continuum it appears like interuptions are now the norm.

 

I run a business. If I tell my clients "x" they expect "x". If the meeting is at 9am they expect me there. If I am running late once in a six month period clients can be accomodating. If I am late every week then they either will say something or quit using me. I would say many of us are now at the "ok this happens all the time" level!